Science, Culture and Integral Yoga

005 b. db. Transcript: The Promise of the Future

Ron — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:00:00 -0700

When this conference was formulated, in the mind of Richard Carlson, he had certain pressing objectives in mind. And we started an email forum to discuss some of these; and at this conference it is hoped that some of these objectives, issues, debates will come to surface in the minds of all the people here, and we take back with us something that fertilizes our lives and our sadhana, our yoga, our engagement with the world, our orientation towards the future.

165 ls. Reminiscences of the Golden Sun

Ron — Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:58:32 -0700

Reading from Aster, You and John had me pondering and collecting my thoughts.

Hansa and I just moved to southern California after living in Chicago for 40 years.

An evening walk on the beach to watch the sunset has become a daily pilgrimage. Watching the Sun, bright golden red as it kisses the ocean in the distant horizon, a Light bright yet not overpowering, warming every part of our being with its rays. ...

...The Mother in trance, The Golden Sun in our midst with Infinite Patience waiting for us to awake from our slumber. ...

162 rv. Charles, here's Aster's article again

Ron — Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:36:05 -0700

From: "Rohini Verma" <verma_rohini@yahoo.com>
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com
Subject: From Aster
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:36:03 -0400

Message - 162/162

Here u go.

161 cf. Amrita, I was not able to read any of your message

Ron — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:45:00 -0700

From: "Charles Flores" <auroman302@yahoo.com>
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com
Subject: Re: Fw: From Aster
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:45:04 -0700

Message - 161/162

Hi Amrita,

Sorry, I was not able to read any of the message - it looks all garbled.

Charles
____________

Charles I. Flores, Ph.D.c., NCC
Executive Coordinator, Auroville International USA - www.aviusa.org
Director of Development, Enlighten Games Inc. - www.enlightengamesinc.com

160 as. Rich, Thanks for Aster's article

Ron — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:52:52 -0700

Rich,

Thanks for the article below.

amrita

159 cf. Nope, I still live in CA - JFK University is on the East Bay.

Ron — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:26:17 -0700

Nope, I still live in CA - JFK University is on the East Bay. Hope you don't mind my using your recent article on Sri Aurobindo and Transpersonal Psychology, since my course is called "The Fundamentals of Transpersonal Counseling," and there isn't a lot of brief non-Wilber Integral that I can give students in an overview course (and its a great article!) ...

158 mm. wow—congrats professor! so you are living in NYC now?

Ron — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:35:54 -0700

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 05:34:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: MICHAEL MIOVIC <mmiovic@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FYI - Esalen Inst. spring workshop

Message - 158/162

wow—congrats professor! so you are living in NYC now?

michael

157 cf. Congratulations, Savitra, on gettingthe workshop in Esalen!

Ron — Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:01:47 -0700

Congratulations, Savitra, on gettingthe workshop in Esalen! Sounds a bit like what you did in AV, with some exercises added.

I'd like to hear more about the trip with Kathy and Barbara Hubbard some time.

BTW, I'm now an adjunct prof. at JFK University. ...

156 al. FYI - Esalen Inst. spring workshop

Ron — Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:29:42 -0700

FYI, I enclose below the weekend workshop title/description which Esalen Institute has invited me to do next Spring. This workshop will be formally posted on Esalen's website and listed in their 2006 Catalog in December. It reﬂects a personal sense of urgency to bridge from words and concepts to actions ("And God shall grow up while the wise men talk and sleep") — to heal our disconnects and the tendency toward "spiritual bypass", integrating evolutionary vision with evolutionary practice, in effect, applying Sri Aurobindo's Yoga in the criticality and convergence of 21st Century realities. ...

155 ga. Apply for Templeton Prize?

Ron — Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:25:00 -0700

I just came across an annual award of c795,000 sterling, called the Templeton Prize. The Templeton Prize is awarded annually by an international, multifaith panel of judges to a living person of any religious tradition who has made a unique contribution to progress in research or discoveries about spiritual realities. ...

149 mm. Re: “Brains May Still Be Evolving.” - But not mine ...

Ron — Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:06:13 -0700

Interesting, thanks--but it doesn't feel like my brain is evolving:) michael

148 rv. NYTimes.com: Brain May Still Be Evolving. (But not mine!)

Ron — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:56:40 -0700

Interesting article and even more interesting is its prominent placement. On the front page of The New York Times ...

147 jm. "Emergence" is ubiquitous

Ron — Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:46:35 -0700

I caught the word "emergence" in one of the recent posts. Here's a letter from the "Journal of Consciousness Studies" egroup which, I think, shows how far the predominantly objectivist viewpoint is from an understanding of consciousness - and this letter is from someone who is trying to get beyond objectivism. ...

146 wm. SA says: The Avatar acts in complete freedom.

Ron — Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:40:39 -0700

In Essays on the Gita, Sri Aurobindo writes about the Avatar, and the necessity for Avatarhood. Don't forget that, in the Aurobindonian world-view, the emergence of the new Consciousness, while involved in, and prepared to some extent by the development in Matter, is precipitated by a Descent from the pre-existent inner world or plane which is the home of that which is to be realized. The Descent of the Supramental, announced by Mother on February 29, 1956, was not in any way caused by the circumstantial or developmental stage of the earth, of Matter. Rather, it was brought about by the concentrated Action of the two-in-one Avatar. ...

145 rh. Imho, Divine is independent of cultural circumstances

Ron — Fri, 02 Sep 2005 22:51:00 -0700

Hearing BMH at the end of a weeklong Savitri immersion, puts things in a unique perspective of course, one probably not shared by those not coming out of such an immersion. Tangentially, it should me mentioned that the Mother and her force of consciousness are as present as ever in such a circumstance, and it is not at all the case that she no longer is in the body or prevented from participating directly in these situations, or even these discussions. But if we disappear into technology rather than Being it will appear to be otherwise.

142 jm. Re: Placeboes; Wallace: Taboo of Subjectivity, A New Science of Cs.

Ron — Thu, 25 Aug 2005 01:00:18 -0700

Indeed, the placebo effect goes right to the heart of Richs question about good and bad science. I have two passages here about the placebo one brief one just for fun, and an extended commentary by Alan Wallace, elaborating on the challenge that the placebo presents to those in the scientiﬁc community who are members of the church of materialism.

141 wm. New study: "Placebos make people feel better"

Ron — Wed, 24 Aug 2005 01:02:14 -0700

This from today's news — I've always felt that the "Placebo Effect" would be a fruitful venue for study of body-mind-spirit interaction. - will moss

140 ps. I’ve been thinking to do another hike for Auroville

Ron — Sat, 20 Aug 2005 21:30:00 -0700

Hi Mike, Thank you for the kind words and your support for the school. I, too, have been thinking to do another hike for Auroville. Perhaps next year or the following one. ...

139 mm. no way for Ananta to return to India

Ron — Sat, 20 Aug 2005 21:15:00 -0700

Hi Lakshman, Welcome to new home, hope all is well. Am sending article in a couple days. We found out from the Chicago consulate that there is absolutely no way for Ananta to return to India. I hesistated to break the news to him, but when I ﬁnally did he brushed it off lightly and said "well, never mind—I've got the solution: BUDAPEST!" What a spirit—every day he proposes a new & impossible foreign destination, and most cheerfully.

137 mm. Prapana: I’m inspired by your recent hike.

Ron — Sat, 20 Aug 2005 11:07:00 -0700

Hi Prapanna, I admire & feel inspired by your recent hike. I don't have your strength & endurance, but I have long thought it would be great one day to organize a walkathon-type activity to raise funds for the Auroville Land project. A gift from the land of America to the land of Auroville. ...

136 ra. Scientists need a "fundamental luminosity"

Ron — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 01:03:51 -0700

I've been intrigued by the reports of "high-amplitude gamma synchrony" (coherent 40-70 Hz, with bursts of 80-120 Hz) being measured in long-term (15-40 years of meditation training & practice) Tibetan Buddhist meditators. Importantly, one study showed evidence that "the trained Tibetan meditators had baseline increases in gamma synchrony and amplitude, suggesting long-term changes in their brains from years of meditation. One might say they are more highly conscious in a baseline state, achieving even greater intensity of consciousness during meditation." Stuart Hameroff believes this high coherence measured at spatially distant brain locations is a possible indication of quantum effects in the brain.

135 jm. My personal quest of an integral methodology

Ron — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 01:16:33 -0700

Almost all scientific research is considered "quantitative". To put it as simply as possible, it means that whatever observations are made - whether it's the chemical make up of a rock or the personality of a native of Niger, somewhere in the course of the experiment you have to operationalize your observations - that is, turn them into numbers. So in my dissertation experiment, the pain levels of the subjects had to be expressed as numbers, their levels of cognitive flexibility, the persistence of pain schemas - etc etc - all ended up being expressed as numbers. Well, on the one hand, the astonishing power of science - particularly physics - lies in this mathematical formalism. The problem is that you lose a tremendous amount of 'reality" when you reduce everything to numbers.

134 ra. Referenced site doesn't follow rules of scientific game.

Ron — Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:53:00 -0700

My initial impression is that this is a pretty flaky site. The first clue was its frequent use of sensational superlatives, often an indicator of amateurs at work. (E.g., on the first page: "... Two generations of remarkable research by thousands of Ph.D. level specialists have emerged from Kozyrev?s seed findings. ...") ...

133 ra. Quantum Evolution & Quantum Consciousness?

Ron — Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:43:00 -0700

- The idea that quantum phenomena may have been crucial to the evolution of both life and consciousness on Earth is gaining increasing interest. ... - Two of the most frequently cited references are the work of Professor Stuart Hameroff, a research anesthesiologist and Director of the Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona, Tucson and the book *Quantum Evolution* by Johnjoe McFadden, Professor of Molecular Genetics at the University of Surrey in England. ... - Hameroff has extended these ideas to include possible quantum effects in the evolution of consciousness on Earth; e.g., in his paper "Did Consciousness Cause the Cambrian Evolutionary Explosion?" ... - McFadden's "Quantum Evolution" ... proposes that quantum effects can act on the positions of protons in the structure of DNA. Through a quantum computing process via the "multiverse," optimized adaptive mutations may occur. ...

131 jm. Scientific Proof of Conscious Energy?

Ron — Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:46:29 -0700

I have no idea if this site is on the level or a bit over the top - the link just came in a letter to the Journal of Consciousness forum. Thought you might be interested. http://ascension2000.com/DivineCosmos/01.htm

130 db. Re: Matthij's AUM talk

Ron — Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:04:00 -0700

Happy Darshan to all. Matthijs has edited the transcript of his talk and the corrected version has now been archived. You can access it at: http://www.sriaurobindocenter-la.com/postaum2005/MatthijsAUM05.doc

129 wm. Thanks! I'm sending Gidney's letter on to my "science skeptics" friends.

Ron — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:47:17 -0700

Thanks for forwarding this letter! I'm sending it on to my "science skeptics" -- you know, the ones who have some inner opening, but identify themselves as 'scientists' and choke over the least thing that contradicts the dominant paradigm.

128 jm. Louis Gidney re "Concept of a Field"

Ron — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:48:00 -0700

I'm still trying to get some time to write about phenomenological research and lucid dreaming. Meanwhile, this letter below from Louis Gidney just appeared on the Journal of Consciousness Studies egroup. The latest issue of JCS is about Rupert Sheldrake's theory that people can tell if someone behind them is staring at them by means of a non-physical field which encompasses both people. There's been conversations on the JCS group for awhile of folks who are either passionately pro or con. I thought Gidney's comments, especially toward the end about the nature of science, might stir some interest among the Post-AUM'ers. ...

126 ra. My background & rational for focusing on positive bias.

Ron — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 01:27:29 -0700

- SA/M's ... warnings against an overly mental approach to the world make complete sense to me. Today's policy and economic experts use computer models with hundreds of thousands of interacting nonlinear variables which still can only accurately predict for a couple of years what a given policy intervention would actually do (& that's assuming no exogenous changes). I've come to the conclusion that the only hope is to somehow connect with a deeper wisdom than merely mental processes can achieve, and the only way I know how to do that is through a serious sadhana based on a long-term well-tested spiritual tradition. ...

124a ra. Thanks Rod! I'll read that chapter in Life Divine

Ron — Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:54:18 -0700

Thanks so much for your edifying response (below) to my question. Per your
recommendation, I'll read the *Life Divine* chapter on "Ascent and
Integration" asap. ...

124b jr. IY perhaps way more 'Intelligent' than ID?

Ron — Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:00:00 -0700

Interesting post. I've wondered the same thing about ID myself, but have not read anything in depth about the theory. On the face of it, Sri Aurobindo's cosmology is a kind of "intelligent design," isn't it? Perhaps way more intelligent than the ID theories. But then, I don't know their theories. ...

123 ra. Re: "terminator tech.": Focus on positive indicators?

Ron — Mon, 08 Aug 2005 05:54:00 -0700

- ... The real horror is that many of these negative changes are the result of the best of intentions; e.g. the population explosion and accompanying suffering that occurred with the introduction of modern medicine in the East (thus dramatically decreasing the death rate) without also focusing on bringing down the birth rate. And of course the accelerating damage to the Earth's biosphere accompanying the spread of the West's consumerist lifestyles. Aren't most of us in this forum already painfully aware of the negative trends surrounding us? I admit that a real bias of mine for this forum is to focus on the many positive signs that the work done by Sri Aurobindo and the Mother is in fact resulting in a discernible evolutionary transformation. ...

121 rh. Answer is in Life Divine

Ron — Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:11:00 -0700

... The mind is trying to explain a level or magnitude/complexity of reality that is beyond its grasp. So science has its convenient reductions as does religion. The reality itself is however beyond mind, and not just present temporal mind, but mind period. The new paradigm in physics and biology is therefore becoming more holistic, chaotic, mystical. "Intelligent design" is a kind of metaphorical mental phrase that describes more than it can explain about a mental perception of the nature of physical existence as human consciousness conceives it. It is no more or less "abstract conceptual" than "random mutation" or "natural selection." As SA said, these phrases don't really explain anything. So, along with SA we should seek an "adequate" explanation of the processes of nature. It is more than intelligent design and more than chance, it is the "logic of the infinite." ...

120 ra. Question for Rod

Ron — Fri, 05 Aug 2005 17:22:00 -0700

Could you say some more about your point #2: "defining and elaborating the relationship between design and process and its 'more than intelligent' nature?" How could this be expressed in a way that would make sense to IY & ID people, and hopefully even some scientists? ...

119 wm. Current view of Intelligent Design

Ron — Fri, 05 Aug 2005 02:04:00 -0700

"Synchronistically", we could say, or maybe 'Intelligently', I received this cartoon from my sister in the Bay Area the same day as Ron's query about Intelligent Design. So I pass it along, as an example of the way it is viewed by the progressive element in US society. ______________ {Fun Cartoon - copy it if possible, from postaum2005 list}

118 ps. I’ve returned from my John Muir Trail hike

Ron — Thu, 04 Aug 2005 16:46:00 -0700

As some of you know I have returned from my John Muir Trail hike. It was a wonderful journey, complete with lots of snow, some exciting and dangerous river and creek crossings, a serious thunderstorm on the ﬁnal night out, and many new friends made along the way. ...

117 rh. Two methods to distinguish IY from Intelligent Design

Ron — Thu, 04 Aug 2005 16:15:00 -0700

Perhaps we could distinguish our position by 1) helping to clarify the difference between creationism and intelligent design thories; and 2) by defining and elaborating the relationship between design and process and its "more than intelligent" nature.

116 wm. Intelligent Design avenue for IY to build bridges?

Ron — Thu, 04 Aug 2005 16:09:00 -0700

But reading the points listed on the Discovery website, it really does seem that, minus the reactive vituperation of the scientific community, ID actually looks quite compatible and relatively non-conflictive with the IY involution/evolutionary Evolution of Consciousness. Again from my untrained eye, it would seem a fruitful avenue for building bridges. ...

113 d&j. Yoga and Research: Sri Aurobindo on science and yoga

Ron — Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:40:00 -0700

I have 2 more letters on this topic - I want to send a description of how I got involved in phenomenological research - speciﬁcally, how I thought it was what I was looking for in terms of a method integrating science and yoga, and how I grew disenchanted with it; the last letter will be on "Insight Dialogue", an integration of mindfulness meditation with Bohm dialogue that is now being practiced in Auroville among many other places. I think it can be used in a way consistent with what Sri Aurobindo writes below.

I've pasted here a quote from the cover page of the ﬁrst edition of the Arya, which appeared on Sri Aurobindo's birthday, 15 August 1914. (This was just sent by Ron). ...

112 ra. The Aims & Method of the journal Arya

Ron — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:55:00 -0700

... Sri Aurobindo and the Mother present their aims and method of their new journal *Arya* ... on the cover page of the first edition, which appeared on Sri Aurobindo's birthday, 15 August 1914.

"1) The systematic study of the highest problems of existence.

"2) The formation of a vast synthesis of knowledge, harmonising the diverse religious traditions of humanity, occidental as well as oriental.

"Its method will be that of realism, at once rational and transcendental, a realism consisting in the unification of intellectual and scientific disciplines with those of intuitive experience." ...

111 ra. "Mind May Effect Machines"

Ron — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:36:00 -0700

I just came across this article, "Mind May Effect Machines," which I think relates not only to questions re methodology, but also to your "theme re consciousness unfolding on many scales," in this case our lifetimes and moments of experience: ...

110 ps. I'm back from my John Muir Trail hike.

Ron — Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:41:00 -0700

I'm back from my John Muir Trail hike. I completed the hike about a week earlier than planned as I was doing about 14-16 miles a day for the last week and half instead of the planned 8-10 miles a day. It was wonderful in the High Sierras this year, but there was a lot of snow, a few dangerous river and creek crossings, and a very serious thunderstorm on my last night out (Thursday). In fact, a Boyscout leader and a boyscout were killed by lightening about four miles from where I was hunkered down trying to keep dry during the storm. ...

108 jm. Don's thesis research re mindfulness meditation & pain treatment.

Ron — Tue, 02 Aug 2005 01:18:03 -0700

I'm making my way toward a specific response to your question about the "research methodology" we're using in our book. I'm not sure how many of the members of this forum are familiar with scientific research, so I thought I'd share some of my (admittedly minimal) research experience, and try to connect it with what we're writing about. My dissertation research was on the use of mindfulness meditation in the treatment of pain. I'll give a little background on how I developed the idea for the dissertation then say something about the methodology. ...

107 jm. What part of our being are we using for our science?

Ron — Sun, 31 Jul 2005 16:21:00 -0700

I really appreciate that you've asked about research. I think that the real meeting place between yoga and science is in the arena of practice, rather than theory. For me, the core question is - what part of our being are we using for our scientific exploration? Through what level/part/plane (whatever you want to call it) of consciousness do we "know" that which we are exploring (and perhaps even more important - what is our relationship to it - is it an object, separate from us we are dissecting? Is it something of which we have direct knowledge? Or perhaps, is it a form of Spirit? ...

105 ss. Ref. to: www.savitribysriaurobindo.com

Ron — Sun, 31 Jul 2005 10:20:00 -0700

It gave me a great pleasure to go though this site: http://www.savitribysriaurobindo.com Please ignore if you are already aware of this site. ...

104 rh. Re: Four Functions Chart

Ron — Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:27:00 -0700

Rich said:

The example of the bees' anticipation of the location sequence is a perfect illustration of "conditioned learning" in the second tier of Don's chart. And it is identical to what happens on the animal level all the time, but as a more complex function of what is called intelligent will in the individual animal.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS BEHAVIOR IS EXACTLY WHAT WE MEAN BY "INTELLIGENCE".

102 db. D&J's chart on "The Evolution of Mental Consciousness

Ron — Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:41:00 -0700

Don Salmon and Jan Maslow have a chart on "The Evolution of Mental Consciousness in Animals" which has now been archived in the postaum file area. It is in the form of a Microsoft Word document. You may view or download it from: ...

101 rh. Re: a response to the question why, how - Jaspers, pt.3

Ron — Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:06:00 -0700

I would like to share with you a reﬂection on science-spirituality by Karl Jaspers, a 20th century philosopher. I will present this in two or three parts because I think it is relevant and maybe a bit long for the forum.

"Part 3: Reason and Communication

Through the secure validity of a common principle that permeated all everyday life, there was, almost until the present time, a cohesion among men which rarely permitted communication to become a special problem. People could content themselves with the saying: we can pray together, but not talk together. Today, when we cannot even pray together, we are at length becoming fully aware that humanity implies unreserved communication among men. ..."

100 rh. Re: a response to the question why, how - Jaspers, pt.2

Ron — Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:03:00 -0700

I would like to share with you a reﬂection on science-spirituality by Karl Jaspers, a 20th century philosopher. I will present this in two or three parts because I think it is relevant and maybe a bit long for the forum.

Part 2: Science and Philosophy

" 1) Science must be made absolutely pure. For in practical operation and average thinking, it is shot through with non-scientiﬁc assertions and attitudes. Pure and strict science in its application to the whole sphere of the existent has been magniﬁcently achieved by individual scientists, but on the whole our spiritual life is far removed from it. ..."

099 rh. Re: a response to the question why, how - Jaspers, pt.1

Ron — Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:01:00 -0700
I would like to share with you a reﬂection on science-spirituality by Karl Jaspers, a 20th century philosopher. I will present this in two or three parts because I think it is relevant and maybe a bit long for the forum.

"Part 1: The problem of our era (as seen fty years ago)

The course of events has led us from an era of bourgeois contentment, progress, education, which pointed to the historical past as proof that it had achieved security, into an age of devastating wars, mass death and mass murder (accompanied by an inexhaustible generation of new masses), of the most terrible sense of menace, an age in which humanity is being extinguished and chaotic disintegration seems to be the master of all things. ...

098 ra. A suggested framework for an Intersubjective Dialogue

Ron — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 02:31:10 -0700
Since reading Richard's recent posts re Habermas, I've been thinking about possible frameworks for an intersubjective dialogue between science and spirituality, hopefully one grounded in, following Debashish's suggestion, "an affective collective space of community." ...

096 db. Co-existence of Unity and Infinity in the Truth

Ron — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:22:00 -0700
It is this mentally incomprehensible co-existence of Unity and Infinity in the Truth that it is critical to meditate on. It results in a great diversity of conclusions, not least of all the very possibility of this relational evolutionary universe and the unending self-discovery of Being. ...

095 vb. Om Namo Bhagvate SriAravindaya.

Ron — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:15:00 -0700

095 vb. Re: test

Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:15:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: vikas bamba <vikmere@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: test
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Message - 95/149

Om Namo Bhagvate SriAravindaya.

(No response required.)

094 db. I'd like to see an "affective intersubjective space" based on a real community

Ron — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:30:00 -0700
I have been browsing with interest the posts ﬂying at supersonic speed on this list without being able to take much part due to a very pressured present schedule. However, on the subject of intersubjectivity and the collective yoga, I would like to add a few words for now (and maybe elaborate later, when time permits). ...

093 ap. Re: Question about challenging the materialist view of the evolution of consciousness

Ron — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:36:00 -0700

093 ap. Re: Question about challenging the materialist view of the evolution of consciousness

Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:01 +0100 (BST)
From: alok pandey <taijasalok@yahoo.co.in
Subject: Re: Question about challenging the materialist view of the evolution of consciousness
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Message - 93/149

Yes Vikas, I just had this thought after sending the previous mail that there was a need to mention what Sri Aurobindo has said that the Truth is One and Inﬁnite at the same time. That explains the issue of varied experiencesof the One Truth.

thanks and love

alok

091 vr. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

Ron — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:23:00 -0700

091 vr. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:23:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Venkat Rajappan <venkatrajappan@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Message - 91/149

Here is a story of a more contemporary example of the scientiﬁc method in relation to arriving at the truth.

http://www.times.com/2005/07/24/science/24bird.html

cheers

venkat

090 bm. Way to change others not in IY, is by our example & integrity, not by theoretical bashing"

Ron — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:21:20 -0700
... the only way to change others, who are not on the Integral Yoga path, is by our own example and integrity and not by theoretical bashing. ...

089 rh. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

Ron — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 15:53:00 -0700

089 rh. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rod Hemsell <rodhemsell@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Message - 89/149

Even on the individual level and for the small collective I often feel that rationalism of the Habermas type can almost certainly lead to the obscuration, corruption, even the abolition of the possibility of truth if there is not a strong guiding intuition. That's the reason for my (provisionally suspended) doubt.

087 vb. Physics-Electricty, Magnetism Electrodynamics

Ron — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:14:00 -0700
I was wondering if there is any physicist or anyone well conversant with physics in particular areas of electricity, magnetism, electromagnetism. I would like to have a more clear understanding of a few fundamental concepts. Of course this would be outside of the group. ...

086 vb. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

Ron — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:47:00 -0700

086 vb. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: vikas bamba <vikmere@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Message - 86/149

Rod,

Nicely put. Love the quotes. Very apt.

085 rh. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

Ron — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:40:00 -0700
I think the comments of Rich, Ron, Vikas, Don, etc. over the past few days have covered an extraordinary range of important ideas. And I really appreciate the treatment of Habermas and subjectivity. It is clear that this term refers to a domain of shared values and language that is created through "culture":

Rich said:

"While an individual may arrive at knowledge through a sudden ﬂash of insight, Habermas insists that such knowledge enters the intersubjective sphere only by being translated into rational, accessible discourse. The sphere of intersubjectivity is not the creation of a single individual psyche, but is a medium of communicable knowledge, created and maintained through the interaction of many subjectivities." ...

083 vb. "THE TRUTH" can be experienced in various aspects

Ron — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:27:00 -0700
Point well made.

082 rh. Mental can't grasp the "temporal unfolding of eternal realities"

Ron — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:14:00 -0700

Now that our community of intersubjectivity has been prepared by preliminary off the wall comments, and taking into consideration 1) my extreme doubt regrading the validity of the notion of intersubjectivity, and 2) that consciousness cannot be "explained," it is possible to create a kind of multimedia collage to convey such abstract points of view as that consciousness-force is matter-spirit and the behavior of rational mind is an infantile delusion. ...

081 bl. Apply to "Templeton Advanced Research Program?"

Ron — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:00:00 -0700

I have not been reading much here so you maybe know about this, but today I checked out these opportunities to apply for funding for research into the topics on this discussion. Several are for $1million. There is also funding for developing communities for interaction on the intersection of science and spirituality. The deadline for the big money is Aug 1. ...

080 ap. Dualism and non-dualism is a mater of practicality"

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 23:46:00 -0700
The problem of dualism and non-dualism is not solvable by only the matter-energy equation for there are worlds of different substance energy combinations and need to be reconciled with the material world. In any case dualism and non-dualism is a mater of practicality. It is obvious that Truth has to be One whatever that may be. But for our purposes we live in dualism or may be multiplism and we need to take stock of that and move from one level to another even when we are intellectually aware of the essential oneness of things. ...

079 ap. Rightly put Ron. I researched scientists pro/con Cs. being primary (in mid-90s).

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 23:41:00 -0700
Yes, thats rightly put, Ron, I too feel that Science is taking / bound to take its inquiry into the field where there is the fundamental Reality of Consciousness. In fact I am aware of the well-intentioned authors you mention and had an occasion to make a huge compilation of several scientists arguing for and against the issue, the opinion then, (mid-nineties) was divided equally.   Now how are we resolve this issue definitively? For, intellectually one can argue either ways depending upon the locus standii, the initial premises, the viewing window and so on. I suppose it is nearly impossible to solve or resolve the issue definitively at the purely mental level, at least where we as a race stand today. It is here that yoga steps in and with a difference. While Science tries to get at That by multiplying instruments and straining the intellectual mind to its utmost, Yoga tries to awaken the inner faculties, refine the existing ones and expand the mentla consciousness till it passes into the more than mind experience. That is pragmatism, to know it by seeing it or even better by becoming it. ...

077 rh. Figuring out how to get into an "intersubjective cube."

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:42:00 -0700
Maybe in an intersubjective cube, if I could figure out how to get in.

076 vb. Yes re nondualism; matter is just events in space and time.

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:23:00 -0700
Good point Rod what you write about non-dualism. In fact science does posit the point of view that energy and matter are interconvertible. In fact matter can be viewed as events in space and time.

075 vb. See this Forum as "God playing at hide and seek with HIMSELF"

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:52:19 -0700
What is most fascinating ,interesting and perhaps even amusing is to know that in all these discussions it is only ONE reality(call it what you will) masquerading under different names seeking to know itself(albeit quite circuitously!). "God paying at hide and seek with HIMSELF"?

074 ra. Response to Alok's concerns.Yes, consciousness is primary

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:35:45 -0700
To make my position clear, I've believed for as long as I can remember that Consciousness is a primary fundamental Reality and all else derives from It. (I hope this comes out in my posts.) I'm quoting scientists that seem to me to be at least sincere agnostics and perhaps even closet theists, which I understood to be Don and Jan's request in their effort to "challenge the materialistic view of evolution." ...

072 rh. Cultivate "non-dualism." SA says “consciousness” absolutely not what we think of as "mental awareness"

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 07:59:00 -0700
The idea that there is consciousness in matter and that it may or may not be active in one plane of organization or another (bacteria, animals, etc.) along with vagueness about "consciousness" and "intelligence", mind and matter, etc. all stems from a dualistic Cartesian bias. If we try to understand the idea of chit-sakti, Consciousness-Force and realize that energy (matter) is consciousness and vice-versa, we can explain the phenomenon of conscioussness at all its various levels of organization from quantum fields to one celled organisms, and on up the ladder. ...

071 vb. Current convergence of science and metaphysics. Mystics already knew.

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:45:00 -0700
Alok has put it well when he says that the the truths are verifiable by an inner psychological process. It may be added that these truths are no less verifiable externally than psychologically. The descent of HER force light and peace are as tangible and palpable as for eg the external touch of a hand. Still it is interesting to note the progress and the convergence of the sciences physics now bordering on metaphysics. ...

070 ap. Don't reduce consciousness to material & mechanical!

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:29:48 -0700
... we must be careful of the attempt to reduce Consciousness to a material and mechanical phenomenon as indeed much of quantum mechanics implies, even when it talks of the electron behaving as if making choices. It is in fact one way of discarding the Truth by admitting and explaining it away. Sri Aurobindo pointed out this possibility and this new form of danger from the 'adversary'. ...

069 ra. When did consciousness begin?

Ron — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:34:59 -0700
>1. When did consciousness begin? 1) Who knows? But I do like Hameroff's idea that consciousness began in the Cambrian explosion about 540 million years ago. As you point out we have to be careful about how we're using terms like consciousness, awareness, intelligence, etc. So I'll be using the word "consciousness" to mean moments of self-awareness, not just the act of doing something, but the added awareness that one has done so. ...

068 ra. Penrose re "Platonic values" at Planck scale effecting brain microtubules

Ron — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:13:00 -0700
One difficulty I have with calling myself a theist is that when we explicitly call something "God," we risk that those not familiar with the Yoga will conflate our ideas with their personal, usually culturally embedded, connotations of the word. My reading of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother is that their ideas re Purusha and Prakriti are far more sophisticated than those held by most Westerners (and probably Easterners too). ...

066 jm. Emergence of "mind" & "consciousness" in bacteria/animals

Ron — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 06:28:44 -0700
Hi Ron: Thanks for this very interesting stuff. I'd like to comment on three points, in the light of recent scientific developments: 1. When did consciousness begin? There are still a few behaviorist holdouts who refuse to talk about consciousness at all. Aside from this, there are some fairly hardline materialists who grudgingly admit "consciousness" (as no more than a brain state, of course) but deny it to infants and all animals. It gets interesting when you get to animals. ...

065 mm. Ron, thanks for the summaries of all of this interesting work ...

Ron — Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:57:00 -0700
Hi Ron, Thanks for the summaries of all of this interesting work, names & details of which are all new to me. "Wannabe theist"—that's funny. Can I quote you? michael

064 ra. Metaphysical positions of Satinover, Penrose & Hameroff

Ron — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:49:00 -0700
Re your suggestion that we identify the metaphysical positions of our postings, here's my attempt with the researchers I mentioned in my previous posting: Jefferey Satinover, and Stuart Hameroff & Sir Roger Penrose. ...

063 rh. Neo-Darwinism and Metaphysics

Ron — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:14:00 -0700
The beak of the ﬁnch is a well documented example. It evolves relatively quickly in relation to speciﬁc environmental changes. In general it's the elegant suitability of every adaptation to its species' ecological niche; chance alone cannot account for the degree of precision between means and ends found in nature both within and across species. The same degree of formal elegance is found on the level of cosmic macroevolution. For example the recurrence of Fibbonacci numbers in spirals and geometric solids from crystal molecules to sunﬂowers to galaxies. ...

062 ra. Satinover, Penrose, Hameroff re quantum effects in brain

Ron — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:42:41 -0700
Hameroff and Penrose have written many papers about the relationship between the fundamental properties of reality and human consciousness, via proposed quantum processes within tiny microtubules inside the brain's neurons. [The "mind of the cells?"] - Their perspective is that mathematical truths and values like truth, beauty, harmony, and goodness exist as inherent, non-reducible characteristics of reality. Penrose has done sophisticated mathematics implying that these "proto-conscious qualia could be fundamental properties of space-time geometry." He suggests that these "Platonic values" exist at the infinitesimal Planck scale (10^-33 cm, 10^-43 seconds), where space-time itself becomes quantized. ...

060 rh. Re: Questioning Neo-Darwinism

Ron — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:41:00 -0700
.. it seems that the metaphysical questions raised by Sheldrake and Marghese are the necessary ones to ask if one isn't satisﬁed with scientiﬁc explanations. Science doesn't usually attempt to answer those questions because it wants to base its proofs on empirical observation. Adaptability through mutation can be observed and the theory proven. For us the more interesting mystery is that the principle of adaptability exists and shows itself in such an inﬁnitely amazing array of purposeful natural design. It seems to us that such purposeful adaptability is virtually synonymous with "intelligence" or "consciousness". Since consciousness in humans can be explained as the emergence of such a purposeful adaptation at the top of the ladder, along with will and intentionality, we seem to have in our possession the principles that explain everything. ...

059 d&j. Re: Questioning Neo-Darwinism

Ron — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:04:00 -0700

059 d&j. Re: Questioning Neo-Darwinism

From: "Jan Maslow" <jmaslow@jps.net
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com
Subject: Re: Questioning Neo-Darwinism
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:04:24 -0400

Message - 059/149

this is great rich, thanks so much. Gould continues to surprise me.

057 d&j. Questioning Neo-Darwinism

Ron — Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:23:00 -0700
I'm sending this letter as part of my ongoing attempt to reﬁne the presentation in our book on the questionable assumptions underlying the materialistic understanding of the mainstream view of evolution. (By the way, this is also an indirect answer to the questions raised by Rich and Alok - here is a practical question - what should I write - and my goal in initiating a dialogue with members of this forum is to ﬁnd support in reﬁning my (inner) intuitive understanding).

056 vr. Re: yoga, culture, choice (post 1973)

Ron — Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:03:00 -0700
... at every point in time, the mind of man holds a thousand thoughts and out of which a hundred actions can arise. but when the light is present and the mind is calm, he holds those integrally puriﬁed set of thoughts and actions which bear the truth in them, which takes one closer to the goal. ...

055 vr. Fwd: Re: Yoga and eye surgery

Ron — Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:43:00 -0700
... It was such an honor to meet Dr. V. He has such a sweet presence and self-effacing manner. When he speaks of his work, it is Mother's work he refers to, and assures one and all that it couldn't have been done by himself alone, but only through Her guidance and shakti. And he insists that this be included in the training for all the staff, and that at the heart of his hospital and any clinics he sets up there be a room set up dedicated to Mother and Sri Aurobindo, for the staff to retire to for inspiration and renewal. ...

053 vr. Re: test

Ron — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:15:00 -0700

053 vr. Re: test

Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Venkat Rajappan <venkatrajappan@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: test

Message - 053/149

me too

—- alok pandey <taijasalok@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> Received.

052 ap. Re: test

Ron — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:42:00 -0700

052 ap. Re: test

Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:42:56 +0100 (BST)
From: alok pandey <taijasalok@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: test
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Message - 052/149

Received.

051 ap. Re: the secret of action

Ron — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:42:00 -0700

051 ap. Re: the secret of action

Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:41:55 +0100 (BST)
From: alok pandey <taijasalok@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: the secret of action
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com

Message - 051/149

That's it, the most perfect solution and the most practicable one since it derives its practise from knowing the truth of things.

Thanks for the apt message from the Essays

alok

050 ap. Re: Request for help from those who are familiar with both biological science and Integral Yoga

Ron — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:35:00 -0700
The reaction of the biologists was to be expected yet you must carry on this work. After all they feel the sense-experience as alone real and have nothing else to fall back upon and that is one reason why the problem can be solved only by an advancement of human consciousness that can see the Divine and His Work everywhere, a state still a far cry from most of humanity and only a promise for the few!

Also while it is true that Science is its real nature is an agnostic, it has been and for valid purposes atheistic in its practical conclusions. ...

049 mm. Re: test

Ron — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:32:06 -0700

049 mm. Re: test

Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: MICHAEL MIOVIC <mmiovic@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: test

Message - 049/149
got it

michael

048 lp. the secret of action

Ron — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:33:00 -0700
As I understand, one of the important questions, that we discussed in the AUM and it continues here, is about what we can DO. The pragmatic man wants deﬁnite action points, like Arjuna, he asks again and again what he should do, and is not satisﬁed with Krishna's answers. His idea of action means something quite different from the Lord's , and therein lies Arjuna's discomfort. Maybe some of us feel a similar discomfort from hearing Alok repeat his 'practical guide' of seeking the inner truth for all solutions of life. It is not practical enough of us. But if we venture on this road and see events from that Light, we might laugh at our undertanding of "being practical." ...

047 m&g. RE: test

Ron — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:25:00 -0700

047 m&g. RE: test

From: "integrallife" <integrallife@sbcglobal.net>
To: scienceandspirit@sriaurobindocenter-la.com
Subject: RE: test
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:58:20 -0700

Message - 047/149

Replying to "test"

Maury and Gaia

045 mm. Be clear, acknowledge opposing viewpoints, proceed w. confidence

Ron — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:20:00 -0700
Don, I would just stand outside the debate between these two sets of biologists, the ones you originally cited and the professor's replies. Accept the technical corrections from your critics that are valid (i.e., make sure your wording is precise, thank them for the input, and move on. ...

044 am. Re: yoga, culture, choice (post 1973)

Ron — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:38:00 -0700
... To add to Alok's comments, Firstly, I believe that an integral yoga, by its very origin and practise demands a participation in the world, whether on the subjective or objective dimension. Therefore the question itself seems almost contradictory. Except that as Alok said that one need not jump into active participation, unless as Rich puts it, one receives 'a call to action', presumably from a deeper voice within. ...

043 d&j. Re: Request for help from those who are familiar with both biological science and Integral Yoga

Ron — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:38:00 -0700
... We do try in earlier portions of the book to lay out the metaphysical foundations for what we're presenting. The book has evolved (!) from a somewhat academic style to a more experiential style, so we generally avoid too much purely scholarly discussion (I was originally planning to have a whole chapter laying out some 6 or 7 different theories of consciousness, from physicalism to pan-experientialism; mercifully, that idea was laid aside long ago). We do point out in the chapter from which the evolution excerpt was taken that the data of science ﬁt equally with materialist, dualist and idealist views. Early in the course of working on this book, I came across a very interesting book by neuroscientist Donald Hoffman from California Institute of Technology in which he elaborates Matthijs' point about the illusions of our sense perception in some detail, and explains why idealism and dualism are as good (and in many respects better) explanations for the data of science than physicalism (otherwise known as materialism or "the view from nowhere"). ...

042 ap. Re: yoga, culture, choice (post 1973)

Ron — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 07:30:00 -0700
... 1. The events of the world as in the individual are symbolic of a deeper rtruth that is trying to manifest or is being obstructed (though in the last analysis both help in the working but that would be a dangerous stance to begin with). To understand the symbolic truth or the play and balance of forces that are at work one needs ﬁrst of al to get rid of nervous and emotional reaction as well as of the surface reason that is incapable of knowing. This itself would mean a considerable inner advancement following the path of yoga. Till that is available it is better to suspend our judgement and learn to dive deep to get the soul vision of things. Such a vision is possible and accessible and it forms in fact one of the basis of yogic efforts. ...

040 db. Questions re Rich’s post

Ron — Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:01:51 -0700
Rich, From your post, I extracted the following concerns: 1) Do we need to interpret the events happening around us as a part of the integral yoga? ... ... These are all very loaded quations that merit our deepest consideration. At this moment it is difficult for me to find the time to give adequate answers, but I do hope others will give them due attention. ...

038 mm. Preface Scientific Discussions w. a Metaphysical Disclosure

Ron — Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:18:00 -0700
The way I think about this is that discussing the "science" in this debate at the level of what experimental data show & don't show is a red herring. I think that there are basically 3 different metaphysical models of reality that people adhere to for a priori reasons, and there is no definite proof for or against any of the 3. They are theism, agnosticisim, and atheism (all broadly defined). ...

037 d&j. Question about challenging the materialist view of the evolution of consciousness

Ron — Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:33:00 -0700
We (Don and Jan) are (hopefully) about 6 months from completing a book, "Through the Eyes of Inﬁnity: Exploring the Vision of Yoga Psychology", which presents Sri Aurobindo's Integral Psychology in the context of the Indian tradition of Yoga Psychology. We very much need some help from someone familiar both with the science of evolutionary biology and with Sri Aurobindo's spiritual vision. ...

Science, Culture and Integral Yoga

005 b. db. Transcript: The Promise of the Future

165 ls. Reminiscences of the Golden Sun

162 rv. Charles, here's Aster's article again

161 cf. Amrita, I was not able to read any of your message

160 as. Rich, Thanks for Aster's article

159 cf. Nope, I still live in CA - JFK University is on the East Bay.

158 mm. wow—congrats professor! so you are living in NYC now?

157 cf. Congratulations, Savitra, on gettingthe workshop in Esalen!

156 al. FYI - Esalen Inst. spring workshop

155 ga. Apply for Templeton Prize?

149 mm. Re: “Brains May Still Be Evolving.” - But not mine ...

148 rv. NYTimes.com: Brain May Still Be Evolving. (But not mine!)

147 jm. "Emergence" is ubiquitous

146 wm. SA says: The Avatar acts in complete freedom.

145 rh. Imho, Divine is independent of cultural circumstances

142 jm. Re: Placeboes; Wallace: *Taboo of Subjectivity, A New Science of Cs.*

141 wm. New study: "Placebos make people feel better"

140 ps. I’ve been thinking to do another hike for Auroville

139 mm. no way for Ananta to return to India

137 mm. Prapana: I’m inspired by your recent hike.

136 ra. Scientists need a "fundamental luminosity"

135 jm. My personal quest of an integral methodology

134 ra. Referenced site doesn't follow rules of scientific game.

133 ra. Quantum Evolution & Quantum Consciousness?

131 jm. Scientific Proof of Conscious Energy?

130 db. Re: Matthij's AUM talk

129 wm. Thanks! I'm sending Gidney's letter on to my "science skeptics" friends.

128 jm. Louis Gidney re "Concept of a Field"

126 ra. My background & rational for focusing on positive bias.

124a ra. Thanks Rod! I'll read that chapter in *Life Divine*

124b jr. IY perhaps way more 'Intelligent' than ID?

123 ra. Re: "terminator tech.": Focus on positive indicators?

121 rh. Answer is in *Life Divine*

120 ra. Question for Rod

119 wm. Current view of Intelligent Design

118 ps. I’ve returned from my John Muir Trail hike

117 rh. Two methods to distinguish IY from Intelligent Design

116 wm. Intelligent Design avenue for IY to build bridges?

113 d&j. Yoga and Research: Sri Aurobindo on science and yoga

112 ra. The Aims & Method of the journal *Arya*

111 ra. "Mind May Effect Machines"

110 ps. I'm back from my John Muir Trail hike.

108 jm. Don's thesis research re mindfulness meditation & pain treatment.

107 jm. What part of our being are we using for our science?

105 ss. Ref. to: www.savitribysriaurobindo.com

104 rh. Re: Four Functions Chart

102 db. D&J's chart on "The Evolution of Mental Consciousness

101 rh. Re: a response to the question why, how - Jaspers, pt.3

100 rh. Re: a response to the question why, how - Jaspers, pt.2

099 rh. Re: a response to the question why, how - Jaspers, pt.1

098 ra. A suggested framework for an Intersubjective Dialogue

096 db. Co-existence of Unity and Infinity in the Truth

095 vb. Om Namo Bhagvate SriAravindaya.

094 db. I'd like to see an "affective intersubjective space" based on a real community

093 ap. Re: Question about challenging the materialist view of the evolution of consciousness

091 vr. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

090 bm. Way to change others not in IY, is by our example & integrity, not by theoretical bashing"

089 rh. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

087 vb. Physics-Electricty, Magnetism Electrodynamics

086 vb. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

085 rh. Re: well,..why (how) even talk about it?!!!

083 vb. "THE TRUTH" can be experienced in various aspects

082 rh. Mental can't grasp the "temporal unfolding of eternal realities"

081 bl. Apply to "Templeton Advanced Research Program?"

080 ap. Dualism and non-dualism is a mater of practicality"

079 ap. Rightly put Ron. I researched scientists pro/con Cs. being primary (in mid-90s).

077 rh. Figuring out how to get into an "intersubjective cube."

076 vb. Yes re nondualism; matter is just events in space and time.

075 vb. See this Forum as "God playing at hide and seek with HIMSELF"

074 ra. Response to Alok's concerns.Yes, consciousness is primary

072 rh. Cultivate "non-dualism." SA says “consciousness” absolutely not what we think of as "mental awareness"

071 vb. Current convergence of science and metaphysics. Mystics already knew.

070 ap. Don't reduce consciousness to material & mechanical!

069 ra. When did consciousness begin?

068 ra. Penrose re "Platonic values" at Planck scale effecting brain microtubules

066 jm. Emergence of "mind" & "consciousness" in bacteria/animals

065 mm. Ron, thanks for the summaries of all of this interesting work ...

064 ra. Metaphysical positions of Satinover, Penrose & Hameroff

063 rh. Neo-Darwinism and Metaphysics

142 jm. Re: Placeboes; Wallace: Taboo of Subjectivity, A New Science of Cs.

124a ra. Thanks Rod! I'll read that chapter in Life Divine

121 rh. Answer is in Life Divine

112 ra. The Aims & Method of the journal Arya